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Post by mongoman on Feb 8, 2007 8:48:03 GMT -5
We based our rules on the combination of a stock gun(around 285fps) and adding a m120 spring, that will result in an aeg firing around 400 fps.
We have a lot of trouble with MEDs at our place in Anniston, it is just too wooded and close up for them to be enforced for the most part. We count on common sense alot, but folks get shot close up. How else you gonna take a bunker?
I have been getting hit with a rattan sword for the last 17 years, I do not fear the bb, but I don't want to get shot in the mouth, ear, up the nose, etc, so I cover myself accordingly. Small bloody hole vs huge, horrible bruises caused by blunt force trauma? I will take the bb. BTW, a .45 ACP round only travels at 785fps and it blows big holes in folks, we would never allow a .45 on the field, so I am definately against ANY weapon over 550fps, 660fps would penetrate bare skin, and I really don't want to have a bb removed or explain to the hospitol folks and the cops how I got a gunshot wound(remember, we are dealing with an antagonistic press and law enforcement communty out there, and wouldn't they LOVE to get their hands on a story about an airsoft game that "TURNS DEADLY") and the repercussions of said incident.
Finally, I think we all need to get one thing through our heads. This is a rough and tumble sport we participate in. It hurts. It will always hurt. There is nothing to be done about it. Not to be mean, but if you do not want pain in your life, then the airsoft field is not the place for you.
As for the original thread here, this is my way of thinking. If you want to get to brass tacks, an M4 real world holds 30 rds, 100 with a c mag. A m249 squad automatic weapon(SAW) manufactored in belgium, uses m4 mags, or a factory packed box mag of 200 rounds. So, until we all drop the highcaps, and the Support weapons go to under 300 rounds, then what real difference does it make? Weight? Realism? Sorry, you have a weapon that is accurate for 175 feet, not 700 yards. How real is it to see folks in the distance and not be able to shoot them? Not very. THis is a game, a game for fun. If you want to carry a cmag on a mp5, then go ahead. If you want to use a CA SAW with a giant box mag, that fires 415fps and 50 bbs/sec, fine.
I just think it is unfair to a team to basically tell them unless you got $800 to spend, no support weapon for you!! I just think you need to limit the NUMBER of box mags on the field. I like one superhigh cap(CMAG) per five folks.
Mongo
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Post by frijoleluna on Feb 8, 2007 8:55:12 GMT -5
I second everything Mongo just said.
Why are people afraid of getting hit with bb's ? Just like Rook, I have run into many a base to grab a flag and got lit up point blank. Do you see me complaining ?
No. You see me showing you my war wounds. Proudly.
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mateba
4/20 K AAV & Steel City Airsoft
Posts: 426
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Post by mateba on Feb 8, 2007 16:16:14 GMT -5
I dont want to hurt someone, but I do want to have a highly competitive gun that I can rely on. I know I'm walking on ice when asking for a reliable aeg considering what I'm asking it to do, but at its ROF i think it'll hold up for now. My point of this was to determine what makes a saw a saw. My question was, is an aeg + c-mag a SAW? if it were not i would want to extra 10 feet and another 50fps, because the only difference between my aeg and the next is the c-mag.
I'm not out there to hose someone down. my role is suppressive fire but I prefer it to be as effective as possible. this means that I'm going to be spraying a bunch of BBs at Simone. I usually go threw about 2/3 of a bag of .25s an op. With the way I play I find myself having trouble staying with groups and tend to rush into the assault. I want to be as close to the action as possible so my MED is something I'm concerned with. I like the rush of ruining with a 10+ lb gun and putting a several hundred rnd line down range if I want. Having the c-mag, my 2x scope and some non-fogging eye wear was the combination that turned my game around. I don't plan on abandoning my c-mag even if I have to get a pistol because of it. which leads me to ask.
In you opinion, what is a reliable and highly accurate pistol, or at least a base to make one?
thanks guys mateba
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Rook
Steel City Airsoft Member
We Will Put There Name To The Test
Posts: 270
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Post by Rook on Feb 8, 2007 23:11:14 GMT -5
I think a support gun is made by how you use it really. You can support your squad with an aeg and a highcap, but really you could put a c-mag on a stock gun and it could be support. You just have to get closer to use it. So my final decision is how you use the gun that makes it support. If you can be support without the high fps then thats all you need. If it takes 50 shots a second and 450 fps for you to be a decent supporter, then thats just what it takes.
On the pistol front i have owned a metal kjw m9, a plastic kjw m9, a kwa glock 18c, and a cyber gun IMI desert eagle, and honest to god the desert eagle was the best out of the bunch, the plastic m9 was pretty good too, but it had a fixed hop-up and the mags were a pain in the ass to load because the spring wouldnt lock down. The desert eagles mag held 30 rds, had such a big gas chamber that you only had to fill it up with gas ever 3 or 4 clips. It also had a little speed loader that with with it for fast clip loadage.The downsides of it were you had to clean it after every game or it would jam, you couldnt see how many bb's you have left in the clip, and the damn thing was so big you couldnt carry it anywhere. But really it was a great gas pistol, i used it as my primary for a while, and i know just about everyone here is against cyber gun, it was the best one i every owned. Way better than the glocks everyone loves so much.
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haslinger
Corporal
F.A.S.T. Handler
Posts: 139
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Post by haslinger on Feb 15, 2007 9:08:12 GMT -5
Gun doesn't make the player...player makes the gun. I used a my 245fps (G&G hated me, now we're ok) for nearly a months worth of gaming. In fact I attended OP:Bay O'Pigs 2 with it shooting close to that. I just had to learn how to move and ARC the shite out of my shots. I could have used my m4 (385Fps) but stuck with the m14 cause I had something to prove to myself. Regarding rushing into bases and getting tagged...if you're afraid of getting hit that close, don't volunteer to be "that guy/gal." I have seen more teammates go down in a firefight because we train on transistion drills (gives the ole sidearm a purpose, aside from going Socom ). Rabbit being pointman, has learned that lesson the most. We will YELL Pistol, give away our position, if we see any of our teammates about to enter into a CQC shootout. However, that being said, If you play in the woods and can't see shite, expect no MED. We had a woodland field for roughly a year before DD. We all left those days with bloody whelps...man the wife got pissed. Feeling is a big part of airsoft, its what determines our kills. Safety is the biggest part of airsoft. The best way to be safe is to simply be aware of that feeling, either on your own body or your targets. If you have not been shot by your own replica, then I highly suggest you have a friend, family member, wife shoot you at 50, 30, and 10 ft respectively. At least you will know what the other guy feels. A SAW in airsoft can be summed up by any weapon with a high ROF and solid ammo capacity. In the end it's not a killing machine...its a device for buttoning up the other players, so your teammates can move in and move on.
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Post by prometheus on Feb 17, 2007 0:15:24 GMT -5
you have stirred up a bloody hornets nest now, mateba. Just kidin'. this subject has come up in different formats and I must add my worthless two cents... Pongo P Pongo will attest to my worthlessness. MED & "bang bang" rule: Tim, remember storming the embassy's back and shooting my left hand with that TM M733 and drawing blood from 50 feet or more. we are playing with BB guns here and guys, lets not forget that. "if it doesn't hurt BAD, then you weren't close enough to them" I always say. granted, we must all enforce some self control, but it is hard not to just kill 'em all right? well, whats too close? I say 15 feet. and no don't say "Bang Bang", say "turn around bitch and watch your 6" suport weapon qualifications: it is my humble opinion that any support AEG allowed into a "true mil-sim event" weigh at least 15 lbs, and be limited to use only hi-cap mags.(not my SAW) while all rifles use 30 rd low-caps....but in reailty, our light weight ammo can not perform like real steel. so I say 3-4 times the normal capacity, or mid-caps and 1000 rd box mags. how many quarter gram bb's will it take to penetrate that bush? and be on target? support weapon; FPS, ROF, and ratio per squad member: yes, a real steel m249 shoots the same round as the current issue m16 variant, but the inner mechanism is different, and as stated by another forum user, most SAW's will perform differently than an infantry man's rifle. so I encourage a higher FPS for SAWs at our field here in chattanooga. and yes, if while staying within the regs, a player with a support weapon goes with a stronger batt... so be it. just pray he is throwing KSC perfect .25's that cost him a bundle, down range, and stay low. also, in my opinion, a squad shouldn't need more than one gunner. period. small squad or large squad, if they work as a cohesive unit, they shouldn't need more than one big, high performance gun to move. I feel as if I have more to add, but in my stupor, I think I am done. ow, I spent far less than the "grand" quoted above to have my high performance support gun. and mongo will tell you, it works very well. "el martillo"- mi nombre mexicano "SAW gunner extraordinaire"-DogSoldier "daddy"-my precious "matthew"-the Lord Almighty
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mateba
4/20 K AAV & Steel City Airsoft
Posts: 426
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Post by mateba on Feb 20, 2007 12:27:44 GMT -5
This post has been fun. I understand now that common sense and a player's judgment can be more important than the general rules. And the the general rules are pretty much a precedence and not as rigid as I first assumed when started my thread. That SAW is awesome! Its common to hear myself say "If i had known that..." Airsoft can be pretty expensive but that probably says more about myself as a consumer than the actual sport. Again, "what will it take to be enough?" I have more than I need but I sure as h*ll don't have enough! I'll keep throwing my G3 to the wolves but I'm not sure what I'll do when something/everything breaks. I saw a BB roll out last Sunday and I'll admit it scared me. I've looked around for durability upgrades but it seems to be a losing battle. So far Ive found that a MOSFET will decrease wear n' tare on my motor during sustained fire and maybe a reinforced mechbox but I'm still a noob. For now I'll upgrade to promote the most inexpensive damage, that sounds funny. I would rather go through a piston then a mechbox. Do you know if a silent piston head actually helps with wear on the mechbox?
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Tripps
Sergeant
I'm a freakin' ninja!!
Posts: 155
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Post by Tripps on Feb 20, 2007 14:13:31 GMT -5
What mostly contributes to gearbox wear and tear is upgrading. You decrease durability by about 45-55% just by opening the gearbox. That being said....
A silent piston is "supposed" to be better for wear and tear. I'd suggest a ball bearing piston head and spring guide if you can swing it. It's supposed to make the spring easier to compress. I don't know about this for sure, but the sustained high ROF leads me to believe this.
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Post by prometheus on Feb 20, 2007 16:26:46 GMT -5
thanks mateba, I have put some time into the RAS conversion and to build a better mag feed switch, but it has been well worth it. ...You decrease durability by about 45-55% just by opening the gearbox... ya think so? 50 percent? so just opening up a brand spanking new TM gearbox to take a look, and closing it back up will decrease "durability" by half?!? this reminds me of something Cajun said on TNAirsoft forum last week. he says that in 3 years he has never had to lube his mags, hop-up, or even clean his barrels. I had to ask him if he had ever needed to charge his battery. so I must ask, have you ever tested this. or is it something you heard some kid say? because from my knowlege of a standard AEG gearbox, you do not weaken the integrity of the shell by opening it, and as long as you don't get the timing off, all would be fine. you aren't changing anything. you could put some more loc-tite on those screws. but I have never seen where those screws back off anyway. they design these GB's to handle the power of the stock spring. So when you introduce more power by way of a stronger spring, or if it is shimmed wrong, or a part goes bad, ect. there is more stress put on the parts than they were designed to handle. this is when the integrity of the gearbox is weakened(during other times and conditions as well). not by simply opening it IMHO.
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haslinger
Corporal
F.A.S.T. Handler
Posts: 139
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Post by haslinger on Feb 20, 2007 17:32:54 GMT -5
I would probably reword that to potentially decrease the durability by 35 to 40 percent. Opening a gearbox is a bit like surgery. It could be a clean room...but there's always a kramer to drop a junior mint.
I am sure statistically you could break it down by the number of times a GB has been opened and tinkered against one that has remained completely stock...never once disassembled.
I hope for anyones sake they don't have to deal with the gremlin...
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Post by prometheus on Feb 20, 2007 18:02:03 GMT -5
...but there's always a kramer to drop a junior mint..... well said
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Tripps
Sergeant
I'm a freakin' ninja!!
Posts: 155
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Post by Tripps on Feb 20, 2007 22:20:57 GMT -5
Wow...do my balls feel busted... Cause, you know, I'm always listening to kids . The stat's were a little exaggerated (nice catch Has). But, it was a statement I pulled from the Air-soft mechanics site (one of the mods said it). It's just been something that has lingered in my mind since I first started upgrading guns. As far as testing theories goes...Things break. Putting parts under higher stress causes them to breakdown faster. If you want a gun to never break, don't upgrade. Only replace the spring when it wears down. I bought a mp5a4 that had been "around" the local people. Was kept stock for CQB games. I upgraded it to a m120 and a aluminum piston head, guess what, it broke the gearbox. Was this solely because of the hard piston head, or was this because the gun was about 4 years old with umpt-teen-million rounds put through it? I'll never know for sure...point is, if I had just replaced the spring instead of "upgrading" it, it would still work today.
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haslinger
Corporal
F.A.S.T. Handler
Posts: 139
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Post by haslinger on Feb 21, 2007 10:54:54 GMT -5
I hear ya....WOW we are WAY OFF TOPIC....
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Post by mongoman on Feb 22, 2007 13:19:24 GMT -5
I hear ya....WOW we are WAY OFF TOPIC.... Easy to do. My personal take on this. I am a newbie, and not a mechanic. I have to beg those around me to help me. As far as I am concerned, these things have small squirrels running on treadmills to power them, that being said. Upgrading a gun is going to make it wear out faster. When I had the m120 spring dropped in the TM M4 733, and I knew, from the advice of Dogsoldier and Prometheus, that it would wear out the gears, motor, etc faster than normal. It did. All at once. Two guns in one day. Fixed them. Working fine now. That is just, if you want performance, the way it is. You can spend hundreds of dollars on upgrades(Mihel) and still, they gonna break. If you really think about it, it is amazing they work at all. I think the thing I really want to avoid as far as Drum Mags, Cmags, whatever, it seeing every other person with one. While I am against most "requirements" I do not want to see more than one support weapon/5 folks. Just my opinion M
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mateba
4/20 K AAV & Steel City Airsoft
Posts: 426
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Post by mateba on Feb 22, 2007 14:56:45 GMT -5
I think I understand why, correct me if im wrong. It would promote a computation for ammo capacity and also further delude the tactics involved in airsoft.
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